A Free Bankruptcy, IVA And Simple IVA, Insolvency Advice Forum

[essbee1040]

Hi

I have a car and the trade value is about 4000/4500. I will be putting my BR papers in very soon. My question is...
As I understand it I will loose the car. However, my sister has said that she will pay the OR for it. Will the OR give her the chance to do this and how does the OR work out what the value is.

I would be grateful for any help

Stewart

[Steve-webmarster]

This might help

Other assets which may be kept and assets which may be lost

A client can keep the following items of property unless the individual value of each is more than the cost of a reasonable replacement:-

*
tools, books, vehicles, and other items of equipment necessary to a bankrupt client for her/his personal use in her/his employment, business or vocation; and
*
clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment (for example, a cooker) and possessions necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the bankrupt client and her/his family.

[Hg]

Hello

Per the above, it may be possible to keep a car if you need it for work.

However you wouldn't be allowed to keep a car worth that much. In theory your sister would have to pay the excess of it's value over £2k. In practice you could negotiate as it would cost the OR money to get the excess of it's value over £2k, so you offer lower and expect to pay £500 or so less.

@"Steve-webmarster"

I have removed the link you posted as:
- the site contains incorrect and misleading information
- the site advertised charges extensively for information available for free elsewhere
- the implication behind the suggestion that paying "someone with experience" to prepare your "partition" would be that it could change the legal position, which is not the case. There is only one way of preparing a petition (I presume you mean petition) honestly, so however it is done and whoever by, the result will always be the same.

[essbee1040]

Thanks Hg,

I have been under the impression that the OR would only allow a car to be kept with a value of around £500 but you quote £2k Has the value changed?

It is worth mentioning I am 68 and retired. I don't know if this will make any difference to the way the OR looks at things.

Regards
Stewart

[Hg]

Hello

It should be possible to keep a car up to a value of about £2k, providing you do have a valid excuse for keeping a car in the first place.

If it's not for work, why do you need a car? What do you need to use it for, what are the alternatives, and how much would they cost compared to keeping a car?

[essbee1040]

Thanks again Hg. Given that the OR just might say the car has to go, would my sister be allowed to buy it and if so how does the OR work out the value.

Regards
Stewart

[Hg]

Hello

A very good starting point would be the private sale, poor condition figure from parkers.co.uk

From that you can probably aim to get something up to £500 off through a bit of bargaining, depending on how much the OR in your area gets charged by the people that sell cars for him.

If it goes down that line the relative would make an offer to either the OR or the person the OR appointed to sell the car for him.

Have you thought though about what you can say to try and keep it? What do you use it for / what sort of area do you live in (rural / urban) / etc?

[tbrampton]

Hello
From my own expeirence I have just had to hand over £450 to keep my car.
My car was purchased for £1750 in May, my mum paid £600 (which proof was given to the O.R. I also told them my mum paid fees of £360 which I proved too) I also need the car as full time carer for my son for whom i get disability allowance. They rejected my offer of £100 and said it needed to be around 80% of £1600. So I offered £450 which they did finally accept.

[Hg]

Hello

There are a couple of issues here, and I think this might be worth pursuing.

Firstly, regarding ownership of the car. Exactly what did you tell them about the money your mother gave you for the car. For example, did you say "My mother gave me £600 and I put it towards a car" or did you say "My mother and I bought a car together. She paid X and I paid Y"?

Secondly, use of the car.

In detail exactly what do you use it for, and what are the alternatives ways (including costs) of doing any trips which are necessary, and how much does it cost you to run the car (including everything)?

By in detail I mean something like

"I use it to go shopping once a week. There is only one bus a day from the village and a taxi back from the supermarket would cost £9.

- I also use it to take the child to school every day. The school is X miles away in a neighbouring town and there are no buses that would get us there in time in the morning.

- I use it to go to a part time job in the evenings. The train would cost £x per month, ...

- My child regularly has to attend a clinic at X hospital which ..."

Thridly - the value of the car. What value does http://www.parkers.co.uk/ give for private sale in poor condition?

[tbrampton]

HI
I told them, my mum paid £600 towards the car for her part share, as I have to drive her to and throw work and hospital appointments and shopping, also have disabled child, which i need car to take to appointments, and also shopping and in case i have to go to his school ( he gets taxi to and throw) i did tell them his school is not accesable by bus or tain, but they wernt interested and said I had to make 3rd party offer. I did think it was rather unfair as some people get to keep theirs. They were quite adiment that either i make offer or they come and collect. As i need the car, i had no choice really ( and had to take out a loan in my mums name, which now is going to cost over 700 to repay (

[tbrampton]

Also car is diesel, so is considerable cheaper to run.
I put about £10 diesel per week, I go shopping at least 2-3 times per week. I went to my sons school 4 times last month which is over half hour drive. I take him to hospital every 6 months. I take my mum to work 5 days per week there and back which is 15 min drive, and hopspital and shopping for her. They said is not needed enough! I did also say that as my son is hyperactive i have to take him out alot and going on a train or bus is not safe with him. That still didnt help!

[Hg]

Awkward. It seems to be mainly your mother that gets the benefit of the car, but one of the reasons set in law for keeping a car in bankruptcy isn't to take your mother to work, so that doesn't count at all in their eyes. It would have been different if it was yourself going to work, obviously.

Taking a harsh line, it would be possible to say that you don't need to go shopping as often as that and that the use for your child is very minimal, not requiring a car.

It would be a harsh line, and although it's probably a valid harsh line (it being essential to have a car is a different thing from it being convenient to have a car), and although it's harder to argue once you've handed the money over, it may still be worth trying to argue.

To look at another angle, are you currently actively looking for work?

[tbrampton]

Thanks
I have applied for a couple of jobs, but not heard back. I did send the applications to the official receiver and they did say unless I have been offered definate work, they will still see my car as an asset.
I have paid the £450 now, so just give up and hope that will be the last about the car I Its too much worry, I just want it all over with really. Only other thing I am worried about is I apllied for a £400 loan online, and although, I chose not to have one in the end, I am constantly getting texts saying my loan for £2000 is approved. I never applied for that amount in the first place. Will I get a restriction because of this?? I didnt even get the £400 as my mum got a loan to pay for car.

[Thomas]

Shame you handed over the car money without insisting on an appeal, second opinion etc but you seem to have close that matter now.

As far as your loan 'approval' is concerned, forget it. You will not have been approved and the text is just bait to get you to respond to see if you have any security (equity in house or third party guarantor etc) for them to get their hands on. You will be dropped as soon as they realise your position. You will not get a BRO/BRU restriction because you have not applied for the loan or received it.

[Hg]

What sort of area do you live in (rural or urban)? Would you have a reasonable chance of finding work if you didn't have a car?

[tbrampton]

I live right near town and all bus routes, so they could argue fact, I could get public transport to work. Reasons I wanted to keep the car was that my sons school is over half hour drive, and not accesible by public trasport and although I only made 4 trips there in July, I never know if I am needed to get him in an emergency. When he was at his last school I was telephoned and asked to go and collect him on a number of occasions. Guess just have to swallow paying out the money. Suppose I have not got the debts to worry about now, only the loans I owe my mum for car and bankruptcy. (
Was kinda hoping I could get refund on Bankruptcy fees then at least my mum would get that back.

[Hg]

I don't think there's much hope re the car.

Not everyone has a car in the first place, and being near the centre of a town isn't a good starting point to argue you need one from. You'd have to be able to argue that you didn't have a reasonable prospect of finding work if you didn't have a car. If you'd spent that last 25 years as a travelling sales rep or a farmer and were pretty definite that this was going to be your next job too, then...

The school are only doing that because they know they can; if they knew they couldn't they'd probably send him home in a taxi like I'd bet they do with other pupils whose parents don't have cars.

You'll never be able to get the Official Receiver's deposit back, it's always charged no matter what. Sadly it's a bit late to start looking to see if you should have paid the court fee after the event.