Sponsored by your friends at Myvesta UK, The UK Financial Crisis Centre. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Copyright 2008, Myvesta Ltd. If you are receiving advice that is what you want to hear, that may be the best way of progressing. We are perhaps more likely to see things from the OR's point of view as we look at things from an insolvency angle too. However I would remark that the maintenance, paid via an indirect route, nevertheless reduces the expenses you have to meet using your income and that the overall effect is therefore still much the same as counting it as income. There's nothing to stop you arguing that the welfare of the child is supreme, though I don't think the law recognises it's quite supreme or that it's supremacy crosses over into other aspects of law. If this were so the law would look quite different and parents would be protected from all sorts of proceedings, like bankruptcy and repossession! I note that you haven't had your interview yet, and you may have less concerns once you have. For example, the suggestion that the OR takes control of your income isn't really what happens in practice. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2649#p9894 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:35:47 CST 9894 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Hello All the best people are up all night! Regarding HSBC, the letter they read out to you is a standard letter that tells them the OR isn't taking your money, so they can't retain it. You can go into a branch to get it out, and if you have problems could phone the OR's office from the branch. Regarding a replacement account if HSBC no longer wish your business, try the Co-Op, they are usually the best. What is the situation regarding the house? Is there equity in it? If so, can your partner afford to buy it from the OR? You probably don't have a claim against the recovery agency in respect of the fact that they were still receiving payments. They would have been entitled to the full amount immediately, so would be entitled to petition if they were only receiving smaller amounts. However they aren't entitled to the amount received after the bankruptcy order, so this must be returned to the OR. Your question is to then establish if the recovery agency followed the correct procedure in petitioning. They should have sent a statutory demand to your last known address, and should then have waited 28 days before sending a petition, which should have been listed for about another 28 days later. You can ask them or the Court for copies of these documents, or see if the OR's office will get them for you. There should also be details of how the documents were served. Depending on what these say, you could get a better impression of your prospects for trying to get an annullment. What was the situation regarding the addresses? Have you moved? When did you last get correspondence to the correct address? When did you stop getting correspondence? If they have stopped using the correct address and got the wrong address by trying to trace you, you have a stronger argument. However, judges tend to take a pragmatic view of the overall financial situation in these cases. Overall, what is your financial situation? Are you solvent or insolvent? http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2645#p9893 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:20:48 CST 9893 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Hi Can't Sleep! Your question is obviously urgent so move your post up to Bankruptcy Questions section where HG will probably see it tonight. He was on last night, like most nights but obviously missed your query down here..... If it is too much to retype, post a message to him higher up like "Hi HG. Please read and comment on my post further down in "'Please Help" section. He is likely to be able to tell you what to do next..... http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2645#p9892 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:08:07 CST 9892 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum My exhusband is a child law solicitor and has explained to me there are no current guidlines in the Child Support Act to state how maintenance is to be used other than for the benefit of the child. It is in his legal opinion crtainly not to be used to pay off creditors. A percentage of his income is taken and the reason for this is so that the child of the marriage continues to enjoy the same standard of living post divorce as prior to divorce. As the maintenance is being paid to his Grandmother it is not income into my household. The monies will be used to enable our Son to have Cristmas presents, holidays, school trips, birtday presents, hobbies etc. All the things an Official Receiver would like to deny our child. As for clothing and housing costs I pay for those out of my wages and Child benefit (an amount the government state is enough to feed and cloth a child) Our point being whilst the OR is in charge of MY finances he is most certainly not in charge of my exes finances and it is both our opinion that he has no say in what each of us do for our child. An OR is a specialist in bankruptcy law. That does not give them the right to blatently flout Child Law. The children's Act states clearly "The welfare of the child is paramount". That basically means that insolvency laws cannot act in way which would be to the detriment of the child. The CSA are completely supporting us in this decision and have told us they would back us in any such dispute and that in their opinion Maintenance is NOT household income. Perhaps there is a test case here we shall wait and see. The OR is having the child benefit and my wages. That is sufficient for day to day maintenance, and I don't see that it is my Son's duty to contribute to a mortgage on a house that is in my name. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2649#p9891 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:08:28 CST 9891 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Thomas+Hg Many thanks for your comments. I am going to trt my very vest to look at this forum as regular as I can and offer any non legal advise with regards to my own experience. I would like to think I can give more time to it once I have moved etc but for now will certainly keep in touch with my progress. Thankyou both for making these last few weeks leading up to BR a lot lot easier. Will find out today if keys are available to new house - fingers crossed! http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2639#p9890 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:03:56 CST 9890 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Hello! Glad to see all went well and smoothly; and I think I could say that your experience was very typical - most people realise that in fact they had far better things to worry about It should be worried about a little bit; it's drastic and not to be done lightly. But now it's done... go and find something stressful to worry about, like moving All the best for your new life! http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2639#p9889 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:24:37 CST 9889 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum I'd suggest it is income, and that it's still household income even if it is paid to your son. I'd argue that it's not paid purely for the direct benefit of your son, but also for the purpose of maintaining a home for your son to stay in. As such the money can be expected to be applied to things such as household expenses, and therefore the OR could reasonably argue that it's appropriate to treat the monies as something available to meet these. I'll check if there's any policy exclusions relating to these payments and post tomorrow if I find anything, but I don't think there are. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2649#p9888 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:19:13 CST 9888 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Benisi Just an after thought....again... If you receive any menacing calls why not sound cheerful/helpful and say something like "Hello, it's inconvenient to speak on this number. Could you call again on 0.... ..... ?" Giving the impression that you want to speak from your dining room, office or whatever. Then smile smuggly as you imagine the caller hearing "Insolvency Service, Good Morning" ..... I just wish I had the opportunity to that again... My bankrupt friend had a letter from her bank saying "this is our final decision" and a week later she was able to staple a copy of her brand new bankruptcy form to the letter and sent it back with a note saying "this is my final response" We still smile about it now...... http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2639#p9887 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:39:32 CST 9887 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Hi Benisi So glad to read your story. I didnt want to suggest previously that you may not even have to see the judge because this seems to be the exception rather than the rule and you needed to be prepared for the 'worst' although you now realise that 'worst' is not a word that needed to be used even if you did see the judge...... NOW, you must not get worked up about the OR interview in 2 weeks time... You have not committed a crime, you cannot change the situation and you just tell the OR how it came about and answer any questions. Obviously, your answers will be very similar to each other. I will not be a headmasterish interview. Bear in mind they are hearing it every day. I know it is tempting to phone some of your creditors - to make you feel even better - but it will probably be a waste of time and you could continue to get phone calls. Just dont answer them. Or if you want to, give them the number you were given by the OR office.... Please now help HG and me to reassure those who have not yet trodden the path to court. HG answers the legal and technical questions because he knows what he is talking about from that side of the fence. My forte is reassuring people from this side because I was made bankrupt almost 4 years ago and prior to it I felt so bad that I had to seek medical help. If only I had known somebody who had already been in my shoes...... Keep in touch. If you look back at earlier comments you will see people who promise to do so but soon fade away. Your experience will be very encouraging to others yet to come..... Regards Thomas http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2639#p9886 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:02:22 CST 9886 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum I AM BANKRUPT! It has happened today.In my local county court at 9.30am and walked out bankrupt at 11.30am. Neither myself or my wife even had to see a judge (stupid to say but we felt a bit cheated after all the worry about sitting in front of one). 9.40AM - Very nice court clerk calls us into room and asks us some questions regarding the forms we have filled in.States that this will determin how the rest of the hearing will go. We both also swear the affadavit. After this she says it all looks fairly straight forward and she would now present forms to judge to ask if he needs to see us personally (this amazed me!). We go back into waiting room , pay our £510 each over counter and were told to grab a coffee. 10.35AM - Court clerk comes in and tells us we are now bankrupt - myself from 10.10am and my wife 10.11am. This was very very surreal and we both just looked at each other."all so simple". The clerk informs us she is now awaiting a phonecall from local OR office and they will be speaking to us in turn.(could be 20mins but could be an hour). 11.00AM - Court clerk calls us back into room where the phone is off hook awaiting us. A lady from OR office asks us questions regarding bank accounts,CCJs,assets but all in a very brief non intrusive manner.We have a telephone interview arranged for 2 weeks today at 10am which she says will be at least half hour each long and she will speak to us in turn.She finishes both conversations telling us both that we are to divert any menacing calls etc to her office and gives us a phone number and wishes us well. 11.30AM - A goodbye to court clerk who was very warm and non judgemental and we are outside the court breathing a sigh of relief. All in all a very unasuming experience and I hope anyone thinking of taking the plunge just takes note of this.I am not saying all experiences are like this but if my experience was 50% worse than it was, it still wouldnt be anywhere near as bad as I had imagined. I will now be collecting keys for my new rented home in next few days and then tackling issue of handing my keys back to current mortgaged home. I am not hugely worried about the telephone interviews in 2 weeks - just wished they were sooner. The immense relief hasnt really hit home yet but I am tempted to call a few credtors tomorrow and perhaps that will give me some closure that I need. So watch this space for next installment. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2639#p9885 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:20:08 CST 9885 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum I have recently been declared bankrupt and suggestions by the OR that my CSA payments are classed as income have been met by the wrath of my ex-husband who has stated that they are for the benefit of our son and is now paying them directly into my son's account which is the care of his nan. I have no access to this account so will the OR still take this as my income even though I can't touch a penny of this money. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2649#p9884 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:22:19 CST 9884 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum Bankruptcy Angel (www.bankruptcy-angel.com) is a commercial site requiring a fee for advice and help whereas this site offers help and advice FREE of charge - see 0800 number opposite http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2646#p9883 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:53:19 CST 9883 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum But www.bankruptcy-angel.com is a commercial site requiring a fee for advice and help whereas this site offers the same FREE of charge - see 0800 number opposite.... http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2647#p9882 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:45:27 CST 9882 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum I have recently been declared bankrupt and suggestions by the OR that my CSA payments are classed as income have been met by the wrath of my ex-husband who has stated that they are for the benefit of our son and is now paying them directly into my son's account which is the care of his nan. I have no access to this account so will the OR still take this as my income even though I can't touch a penny of this money. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2648#p9880 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:02:22 CST 9880 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum I live in England and unfortunately recently had to file for bankruptcy. I was extremely worried about the bankruptcy process. I was worried what would happen to my job, home, savings and other assets. I was worried what would happen to me as a consequence of having to declare myself bankrupt primarily because I was uncertain as to whether the way I had used credit, and managed my finances, would be deemed to be misconduct/an offence in law by the Official Receiver/The Insolvency Service! That was however until I was put in contact with John from Bankruptcy-Angel. com. John had previously worked for The Insolvency Service and had held the same post of the person whom I was obliged to be interviewed by after I had filed for my own petition in bankruptcy at court. Consequently, John was able to offer me a unique insight into what the bankruptcy process entailed and gave me a greater understanding of what was in store for me post bankruptcy. John, was both empathetic and enlightening. He explained to me what questions the Official Receiver is likely to ask me in regards to my individual circumstances (e.g. liabilities and assets), as well as answering any questions I had about the bankruptcy process as a whole. Speaking to John made me realise that there was a light at the end of the tunnel! A particularly helpful service offered by Bankruptcy-Angel. com was a step-by-step guide on how you should fill-out the form/legal documents you are required to complete when filing for bankruptcy. http://myvesta.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2647#p9878 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:00:20 CST 9878 at http://myvesta.org.uk/forum