A Free Bankruptcy, IVA And Simple IVA, Insolvency Advice Forum

[ChloeLouise]

Gosh i am sooo sorry to take up all the space but i have another question...

When filling out my husbands pettiton form, how should he put down his business outgoings...he is a driving intructor so should he not include them in expenses i.e petrol, car insurnace etc, or put his income down before expenses and put all expenses down in the collumn alongisde household expenses? Does that make sense? He does not owe any money to anyone on a business level and we really want to keep the business going so i dont know how to handle it....

Sorry and thanks xxx

[Piston broke]

Hello again.
Do you just pay everything into a joint account or does your husband hold a business account for the driving school.

If it just goes into a joint account, then it could possibly be put down as house hold expenses, Im not to sure and cant remember how the forms are laid out.
Do you work at all Chloe?

hg would be the better person to reply to this question I think.


Geoff.

[Hg]

Hello

The breakdown the forms ask for asks for household types of expenditure, and these things usually operate on the basis of a separation of the business from it's owner.

I'd put the income down after business expenses are taken off.

[ChloeLouise]

Thank you so much for you replies.....We have decided to go to court on Friday so tyring to get everything in order for then! I am scared about all of it and just can't wait till its over, its just the uncertainty of not knowing what they will take and, how the business wil be affected and if my husband can continue and whether we will get into trouble for maxing out our CC's. I am just hoping that as they are pretty much maxed out already, an extra £20 to pay a bill wont make much difference. I am currently at home with my daughter so dont work but as she is just starting playschool i was hoping on setting up a business as a reflexologist in the new year. Has anyone got any advice or experience of how this works in repsect of the OR deciding you have to therefore pay into the income thing? At the mo we have no money at all left and are in fact in a minus situation with bills so i cant see how he would do it now but if i was to get an income then surely he could decide we have to do this. I dont mind but i cant handle the idea of being an undischarged BR for 3 years or whatever, i just dont think i could cope with it.

Thanks Chloe x

[Piston broke]

Hi
The OR will only look at taking out an IPA/IPO if you have more than £100 disposable income left after all of your monthly expenses are taken out. This would last for three years and he would be looking toke approx 50% of the £100, this percentage increases the more money you have left over.
You would automatically be discharged from BR after one year or sooner if the OR finds that you can pay nothing back to your creditors
My BR lasted from July last year to April this year.

Dont forget to put down everything as your household expenses, even saving for birthdays and Christmas, also include having all your families hair done each month, allow £10 per person.

I would imagine that with having a small child your monthly expenses on food alone etc would come to at least £450-£500 per month.
Dont forget to allow for an emergency fund of say £25 per month, just in case the washing machine goes pear shaped and needs to be repaired.

If you need a list let me know and I will dig one out for you.


Geoff

[ChloeLouise]

Hey Thanks Geoff

I have just done my forms and it did sort of come to me that i shouldnt put too much down for expenses as surely if we have a minus amount after household bills this is when he is more likely to look at cancelling broadband and mobiles phones etc, both we need for the business. is this right? I have worked it all out so that i am left with about 25 pound each month? Does that sound about right? As pete is self employed income increases and decrease each month so its quite hard to estimate things but without the debts then we will be able to just get by, a far cry from having to find an extra £600 each month! lol

xx

[Piston broke]

Glad to help.

If you have any more questions, them dont hesitate to ask. If I cant answer them either hg or Thomas will be there to help.

Good luck for Friday, the first day of the rest of your live's


Regards

Geoff

[Michelle Berisford]

After reading these posts i wondered if you would be able to send me the list you mentioned regarding expenses as im not sure how it all works.
Thanks

[Piston broke]

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These are what we claimed for. You will obviously need to alter the amounts and items to suite your own circumstances.

Be honest, but dont go over the top by too much. I think its better to go a little bit higher than too low. The Or may knock you down a bit.

Mortgage/Rent £411
Council Tax £122
Electricity £105
Gas combined with above
Heating Oil N/A
Water Rates £38
Telephone £80 includes cable TV and internet connection **
Mobile Phone £55 two phones
T.V Licence £10
Satellite TV ** see above
Internet ** see above
Buildings Insurance Contents Insurance £15
Life Insurance £10
Groceries £560
Clothing £150
Petrol £170
Car Tax £30
Car Insurance £41
Car MOT £9
Car Maintenance £40
Car Parking £28
Bike tax £5
Bike insurance £15
Bike mot £3
Other Travel £5
Childminder N/A
Medical/ Dental Expenses/optical £10
Pets Insurance/Vets Bills £10
Birthdays/Christmas £30
Holidays. £70
Hairdressing/barbers £35
Royal college of nursing £15
School trips £20
Emergency fund £25

Not a single item was questioned by the OR.
That doesnt mean that yours wont though.

I have three girls aged 16, 13 and 7 so our grocery bills seem quite high, well they do to me

Hope these help.


Geoff

[Michelle Berisford]

thanks for your help
thats great
makes much more sense
didn't realise you could put down holidays, christmas and birthdays or hairdressers etc
thanks

[Thomas]

Hi Cloe

Just noticed your post and mention that you have decided to go to court on Friday. Do you mean you have an appointment for your case before the judge on Friday or that you just intend to lodge your petition and obtain an appointment? Whereabouts are you and do you know if there is a long (or hopefully, short)
waiting time?

Regards Thomas

[ChloeLouise]

Hi Thomas

We went to exeter Crown court and you just turn up on the day and wait abit and its all done. It took about 2 1/2 hours which i thought was pretty good and we gave our forms in...waitd while they were signed by the judge (didnt have to see him) and then waited for the 10 min chat with the OR office. Job done. We have been told to expect our interview with the OR this week or next which to be honest is the bit i am looking forward to getting out the way so we can find out whats gotta go etc and whether my Husband can carry on with his business. We met her briefly on friday and she seemed lovely so hopefully we can be on the same side! Will let you all now how it goes. I must say though it was surprising easy and uneventlful declaring bankruptcy and i was amazed by the amount of young professionals that were there doing the same thing...it kinda made me feel a bit less of a loser! lol

Lots of love Chloe x

[Thomas]

Hi Chloe

You are a olly lucky to have a virtual walk-in bankruptcy service down there in Devon...! Some people have to wait and I am told that Brighton is particularly bad as it covers a big area. When at court with a friend last year I asked one of the ushers why some of the Brighton worked could not be hived off to another court or perhaps the creation of another court. He took me back a bit by saying that he thinks that it would require an act of parliament or at least a major change in law. The government would be unlikely to spend the extra money as it's not sufficiently vote catching so, like banks/post offices etc, they save money by passing the problem onto the customer by making him queue ...

Anyway, seeing the person likely to conduct your OR interview was obviously reassuringly helpful. She (or whoever does interview you) will be the 'examiner' who does the coal face work for the OR. The title does sound a bit headmasterish but not something to worry about. My examiner was a very pleasant man as as I left he said "just look forward to today's date next year" and gave me a "how helpful/efficient/satisfactory were we?" type of questionaire to complete and return..... In any case they have to work within government precscribed parameters. Bankrupts are allowed to continue in business as long as they trade in the same name as before so, hopefully, your husband will not find any problems in that direction. Unless you have some antiques, collections or anything else of particular value, your possessions are safe. Cars worth more than £2000 seem to be the main things they are concerned about but I expect you have read other people's posts on this subject.

Keep us informed Thomas

[Piston broke]

Well so far so good

Bet you feel a lot happier now dont you.

[ChloeLouise]

Hiya
I do feel a little better knowing we have started the process although to be honest ia m really nervous about the OR interview which is scheduled for Friday. We wanted a face to face interview but can only have a phone interview which i feel will make thigs harder as my hearing isnt great and i tend to forget everything i want to ask when i am on the phone. Still cant change that i guess. I have just been reading other peoples posts and have seen that after the interview the OR sends a report..can anyone explain what this is and when i may receive it?
Many Thanks
Chloe xxx

[Piston broke]

Hi Chloe
Dont worry about the phone interview, its not at all bad. We had a face to face and I was bricking it We were there about 2 1/2 hours and all they did was ask for a rough history about how we came to be in so much debt It relly isnt worth worrying about.

If you feel that you will not be able to remember any questions, just write them down as you think of them.
Best bit of advice I can give you, is just be honest with them and you wont go far wrong.
We never got a report from the OR !!!

Best of luck for tomorrow

big hug xx

Geoff

[Thomas]

Chloe
I remember my own examiner telling me that he writes a report for HIS superior following the interview - I dont know anybody who has received a copy although you may be legally entitled to one if you wish but I guess for most people (me included) the less such stuff one receives, the better..... If a BRU/BRO is called for one might be sent a copy of the report in order to defend oneself and answer any allegations before the Undertaking or Order is made.

[Hg]

After the first interview the examiner will prepare a Report to Creditors, which goes out to all creditors and the Court in the Official Receiver's name. It is a fairly boring document that will have details of your assets and liabilities, a brief summary of the cause of the bankruptcy, and standard information for creditors.

You don't get a copy as it's purely a formal thing for the creditors; it's from that point that creditors should be stopping contacting you.

[ChloeLouise]

Hi All
Well we just had out interview which was ok...lovely lady but hard trying to remember what each credit card was used for, when it was extended etc....i just hope they dont make you swear on oath! Good things that came out of it was that i may be able to make my car exempt (its worth about £2200) as i plan to be a mobile reflexologist in the future, which is addition to pete keeping his car for his business. We can also keep broadband, tv, mobiles etc but have to drop sky! This sent me into a panic as we cant get normal tv where we live and if my daughter loses cbeebies then god help us! But the lady explained that she wont actually take it away she just wont put it down as an allowable expense! oooohhhhh lol!
She said she will next be in touch about my car and if she has any more questions and then the report to the creditors will go out in about 8 weeks, which i suppose is when we will find out about IPO or BRO etc
I do have a worry though and really need some advice about what i should do.........

In 2005 before we got the majority of our debt we won £33333 on a lottery win.....as i had no work and pete was just starting his business it went very quickly and i gave a lot to family and also had a holiday to new york etc and bought my car. the question is should i tell the OR, she has all my statements and hasnt asked for any dating further back but i am scared she will and then think we have pulled a fast one. As she may want to know why we didnt pay off any dept, why we didnt make it last, why we took out further credit etc but the thing is when we won it we had no idea that things would get so bad, we could happily afford our cuurent repayments and didnt think of saving it...stupid i know and if we had the moeny again of course we would be more sensible but it just went so quick...i dont know what to do....is it any of her concern as it was 2005 or should i just tell her and hope it doesnt go against us, i am worried that she will reclaim money i gave to family as she mentioned during the interview about money my mum lent us recently getting claimed back if i had paid her back. Does that make sense?
Please help xxxxx
Chloe x

[Thomas]

Chloe
The lottery win... are you talking about a mere £333 or possibly £3333 or do you really mean £33,333? If it is more than the first three 3s I would certainly tell the OR, just in case it rebounds on you. When your BR notice is published it might raise the eyebrows of someone who knows of your good fortune and who might write in. It would be difficult to say you 'forgot' to mention a win of this magnitude... I cant remember the amount of time the OR goes back but you may be lucky if it was 3 years ago. However disapproving the OR may seem when hearing that it is all gone, I dont think it is unreasonable for a lottery winner to want to share it by making gifts and I think there is a difference between this sort of giving and suspiciously hiving off one's normal cash possessions to relatives in order to hide it. If mention of a BRU/BRO comes up I would think you have a much better defence if you divulge the win now but less so if you try and hide the fact. One more thought.. The OR may ask you for proof, or the address whence the winner's cheque
came from in order to verify that the money was not the product of a secret sale of possessions...

Ask HG what he thinks.....

[Hg]

Hello

I don't think I'd try and forget to mention this if it's possible if could be any of their business, as I think do to so would lead to a lot of questions and scrutiny. It doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that's easily forgettable! (Well, at the very least, I don't think I'd forget it!)

The key thing as to the expectations on a lottery winner would be whether or not you were insolvent at the time you received the money. If your liabilities exceeded your assets AND you couldn't meet your repayments *at that time*, then it would be seen as wrong to just go and spend the money. However if you were meeting repayments, or if you were otherwise solvent, or if there was no reason to expet that you wouldn't be able to meet existing liabilities without using the lottery winnings then it's up to you what you wanted to do with the money.

I note you say that this was before the vast majority of debts were incurred, if that's the case then what you did with the lottery winnings shouldn't be so much of a problem.

In a strange way of things, I'd actually go as far as to say that if you are certain that you were solvent at the time and therefore have nothing to hide, there's probably absolutely no need to mention it unless you are asked!!!

If you aren't certain you were solvent at the time, then the money given away could represent an asset, and not disclosing what happened could therefore involve concealing an asset.

[ChloeLouise]

Hi
Thanks for the reply re the lottery win. I am certain that at the time we were solvent and happily meeting all repayments as they werent very big, we had no way of knowing how bad things were going to get as if we had then of course we would have been much more carefull. This being said i think i have nothing to hide and do as you (hg) have said and only tell them if i am asked. At no point so far have i been asked about any income or assets i had back then so i havent lied or anything. As far as i am concerned i dont know what i need to tell them if they havent told me...does that make sense? We havent yet heard from the OR since the Phone call so i assume things are going ok...just waiting to hear about the car. Will keep you posted.

Love Chloe x

[ChloeLouise]

Hi all

Not sure if i should be continuing with this thread of starting a new one for progress updates?.......

Well its now been 5 weeks since we declared bankruptcy and we havent heard anything from the OR since our interview until today....we had a letter each saying that both cars were being made exempt, My husbands for his business and mine for personal use and for when i go back to work in the future!! I am over the moon. i thought they may charge me something for keeping it as its worth approx £2400..but i don't have to pay a thing! We also had a letter about our life assurance policies which said we can buy them back for £50, so i gave them a ring and said we want to but dont have the money till after xmas some time. They said this was fine as long as we keep them posted. She also said that we probably wont hear from them now until well into the new year and she imagines that we will be eligible for early discharge, and doubts we will have an ipo if things are roughly the same as now. I am so releived by how straightforward its been and only wish i had done it sooner before i borrowed money from family to pay debts! Still hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Hope its going ok for everyone else...i am more than happy to help with any info or answer any questions about my Bankruptcy to date should anyone need it. xxx
Chloe x